~ Photo Cafe' ~ Photographers - Episode #37! ~ Chat Transcript ~ 3rd of June, 2023 "Resistance is futile!" H.12:00 PM SLT [The following Episode #38 will be on: 17th of June 2023]
[12:06] Kika Yongho: Hello Photographers!
Here we are today again with the “hot topic”: AI – Artificial Intelligence! We titled the episode provocatively: “Resistance is futile!”, but we are here today to listen to all of your opinions and insights! Pro or con, we know that AI is already part of our lives so the best strategy is to “know your enemy”! (or friend?…)
[12:06] Kika Yongho: To do this we have a little gift for you.. Your own AI! Here on the sim there is a box that you can click to get your own tiny AI pet. It works with ChatGPT so if you want to use, you need to make (if you don’t have already) an account on their website. Inside the package there are detailed instructions to make it work so you can click the box and see for yourself!
[12:07] A. (ava.darkheart) kills the pet
[12:09] Kika Yongho: After you take the Roboto, to help you with the registration on the AI website there is an illustrated step-by-step visual “manual” (the link is also in the notecard that comes with your Roboto pet AI):
The pet is based on a free script that interfaces chatGPT here on SL that has been adapted to go in the Roboto shoulder pet.
[12:10] Kika Yongho: If you have issues with the setup, even after reading the manuals, you can always IM me and – within my knowledge and possibility – I will try to help you with it so you can get to know your textual AI a little better!
[12:10] Kika Yongho: Alright who will want to face the enemy: click and take a Roboto, while I give the virtual mic back to Duraya and we start the surely very lively discussion! Please Duraya, me and Roboto are roger and out for this intro!
[12:11] Duraya: Thank you Kika, and thanks for making this little gift
[12:11] Duraya: Have fun taming the little Roboto everyone! And enjoy chatting with the little guy.
[12:12] Duraya: Now let’s turn to today’s discussion about the use of AI in creating.
[12:12] Duraya: It has been some time since we discussed it first and I am sure we all are much more experienced using it by now.
[12:13] Duraya: We see a lot of AI generated art on Flickr and some is awesome.
[12:13] Duraya: I may remind you of a definition I gave you then: creativity is “the forming of associative elements into new combinations which either meet specified requirements or are in some way useful”
[12:14] Duraya: Why do I bring that up? As Kika initially mentioned we decided to be a bit provocative about the topic.
[12:14] Duraya: So here’s the first deliberate provoking question: Apart from the (unfortunate) fact that AI processes a lot more elements per timespan than the human brain where is the big difference?
[12:15] Duraya: AND
[12:15] Duraya: Is it significant at all for us photographers? If so how and why?
[12:16] Duraya: the floor is open, the discussion tracker is waiting
[12:16] A. (ava.darkheart): c
12:16] Duraya: yes please Ava
[12:22] A. (ava.darkheart): Hum. I dunno if it’s comment or else anyway. First I wonder if timespan is relevant in this story. And the fact that we put this question right now show that we are in a consumerism world, where we want all now, time is money and we have to do all quick quick… So i don’t think we should even mention this in here. How much time needed to paint Guernica? Does Roberto Ferri Dipinti know how to write prompts? No. That’s the difference between human and AI I guess. Sorry, I was long to just say nothing, this topic just make me angry somehow. Done
[12:23] Moonsoul Kiyori: c
[12:23] Duraya: this is no surprise after you threatened to murder Roboto 😉
[12:24] Duraya: and I think it’s good to express it here
[12:24] Duraya: Moonsoul you are next
[12:25] Moonsoul Kiyori: I think what we are asking here is whether AI art is true art. Fast is only one of the aspects. done
[12:26] A. (ava.darkheart): c
[12:26] onceagain (manoji.yachvili): c
[12:26] Duraya: thank you Moonsoul.
[12:32] Duraya: Ava, your comment
[12:32] A. (ava.darkheart): Is having sex with inflatable doll is real sex? Isn’t the same question here? Cause the topic sound like this to me. do we need a brain and emotions to create? Done
[12:33] onceagain (manoji.yachvili): Ava ti adoro
[12:33] Moki Yuitza: c
[12:33] Duraya grins, don’t let me ask if we need to have a brain and emotions to have sex
[12:34] Duraya: the next on my list is once
[12:35] onceagain (manoji.yachvili): what I think is that AI is just a tool, we are always behind it.. us, human being, I don’t’ think that this comment needs to be further explained. done
[12:35] Duraya: thank you
[12:36] Duraya: and now Moki
[12:36] Moki Yuitza: for me the basis of the reasoning is:
[12:36] Moki Yuitza: 1: the definition of “creativity” that Duraya gave us
[12:37] Moki Yuitza: 2: the fact that at present, AI can only generate a result after a prompt given by a human being, and because this is also a good result, the human being must also work around the prompt for the result to be actually what he wants to achieve
[12:37] Moki Yuitza: with these premises, for me AI can help a human being to create art, but I will consider art completely generated by an AI only when it will be produced without any human intervention, and also motivated as such by the same AI
[12:37] Moki Yuitza: one wise person once said me:
a lot of people knows how to use colors and brushes, but not all of them are Leonardo Da Vinci.
[12:37] Moki Yuitza: for me, AI are tools like brushes, they just can help people who knows how to use them to achieve faster the result they want. Done
[12:38] onceagain (manoji.yachvili): c
[12:38] Duraya: thank you Moki
[12:39] Duraya: the idea of art prompted by the AI it self is really interesting, I wonder if we will yet see that.
[12:39] Moki Yuitza: yes, but it also has to be motivated, i can ask an AI to generate prompts, but it does not know why
[12:40] Duraya: yes – not motivated by a human as in prompting the AI to do it’s own art. Once you are next
[12:40] Kika Yongho: c
[12:41] A. (ava.darkheart): c
[12:41] onceagain (manoji.yachvili): we are talking to much about this, it’s really just a tool, the same thing happened with the photography and the painters thought that was evil and so on.. any of us knows how that ended.
[12:42] onceagain (manoji.yachvili): .we already had sort of a discussion last year about Midjourney with the same questions, in any case I agree with Moki
[12:42] DaneAlbion: c
[12:43] onceagain (manoji.yachvili): I prefer to talk about this argument in my native language and with voice because its a kind of philosophical discussion. Done
[12:44] Duraya: thank you and Kika please
[12:45] Kika Yongho: Thank you! I agree with Moki with the view of the AI as a “tool” that can help us to achieve faster and better results. For example the new feature in Photoshop for photo retouching thanks to the AI contribution can help to restore pictures (for example to recolor old photos and such). This said the problem is not the tool itself, is what use you make of it. You can use a pen to write Divine Comedy or to poke an eye. Done
[12:46] Duraya: thank you Kika
[12:46] Duraya: I have Ava again on my list please
[12:46] ᴍʌᴛᴛ (matthsuogan): C
[12:46] Cecilia Nansen: C
[12:50] A. (ava.darkheart): For me, we are finally entering the era of lies and deceit. It all started with fake news and we will end up being simple coders or prompters to satisfy the obsession and lazy addiction of passive observers. It’s easy to talk about a “tool” but we all know it’s not being used as tool anymore, even if some keep using it this way. May i remind you that the World Photography Organisation give a first prize to Boris Eldagsen… and guess what? He refused the prize, because he said he never took that picture, it was made by AI. So what does this show? It shows that already we cannot make a difference. Done
[12:50] Kika Yongho: c
[12:50] Duraya: thank you Ava, Dane is next
[12:51] DaneAlbion: i slightly disagree with Moki’s comment, yes it is a new tool but not all current artists will be able to get along with it and will fall away. It could move art in a new direction in the same way that photography destroyed the portrait painting industry but also drove the introduction of new art movements using paint. Done
[12:52] Duraya: thank you Dane, Matt, it’s your turn
[12:54] ᴍʌᴛᴛ (matthsuogan): I am not in favor of AI. Can be personal, maybe inspiration for some but to create with simple words with rules and cheats does not make you an artist or your own art. It simply makes the brain even lazier and more dependent on AI – to be addicted could be short or long-term. I personally find AI a bit dangerous on several levels. I think the human brain can do more than we think. Done
[12:54] Duraya: thank you Matt, Cecilia, let’s hear your comment now please
[12:55] Cecilia Nansen: For me i have 3 primary thoughts:
- My fear of evil and corrupted people misusing this tool for false propaganda and fake news, to stir up crazy and violent people, to become even more crazy…and violent. We see this happen already.
- AI is a great tool to perfect certain types of pictures, for PR, posters and such – or redo old photos as previously mentioned but…
- AI can never replace ART ..because art – for me – comes from deeper emotions, often sorrow and loss….depression or deep deep joy. Real artists and i am not talking of us silly heads on Flickr, but those who can interpret feelings through a canvas or a photo like very few can. This is too unique for AI. Done and thank you
[12:56] Duraya: thank you Cecilia, Kika please.
[12:57] Kika Yongho: I hear what Ava says but you can’t condemn a tool if it is misused but you can condemn the bad intention of the persons (not the AI) who use the tool/medium improperly. What she says about the era of the “fakes” we experience already since over a decade here on SL after all. Is up to us how to live the fiction of the medium: enhanced expression possibilities or lies and deceit. Done
[12:58] Michiel Bechir: c
[12:58] Duraya: I will open the boards with random statements I collected when preparing this – pros and cons – maybe they contribute to the understanding.
[12:59] Michiel Bechir: AI is corruptive for creativity, because by machine learning it is interpreting all kinds of pictures, photos, painting and re-using elements. These were unique elements but will be used in new ways and destructing human creativity in the end. done
[13:01] Duraya: thank you Michiel
[13:01] A. (ava.darkheart): c
[13:01] Duraya: as Kika said ‘know your enemy or friend’
[13:02] Duraya: yes Ava
[13:04] A. (ava.darkheart): Just a last question come in my mind… About “tool”, what is the purpose of this tool? I mean, why do we create pictures in the end, is it a representation of our gaze on world, an expression of an emotion… and what is the purpose to make it better than our own skills? Done
[13:04] Duraya: thank you Ava
[13:06] Duraya: Our next episode will be on the 17th of June and we will have a fun photo challenge!, a Minimalist challenge. We ask you to bring at least one picture (new or one you already have) to show us the result of you concentrating on the minimum – of course with the maximum of effect.