Photo Cafe' Beach Lounge - The Start! ~ Chat Transcript ~ 25th of September, 2021 H.11:00 AM SLT [ The following Episode #3 will be on: Sat, the 9th of Oct H.11.00 AM SLT! ]
[2021/09/25 11:10] Duraya Resident: Hello and welcome to our second photo cafe, so nice to have you all here.
[2021/09/25 11:11] Duraya Resident: I think everyone got the invite and is informed about today‘s agenda.
[2021/09/25 11:11] Duraya Resident: Last time we promised to provide a notecard with photography tools you can use.
Free GIMP on https://www.gimp.org/ Adobe Photoshop express on your Appstore (Windows App store included) Paint.NET at https://www.getpaint.net/index.html Picasa 3.9 at https://archive.org/details/picasa39-setup_201910 (No longer supported predecessor to Google Photos) PhotoPos on https://www.photopos.com/PPP3_BS/Default.aspx PhotoScape on http://www.photoscape.org/ps/main/index.php Darktable on https://www.darktable.org/ inPixio on https://www.inpixio.com/free-photo-editor/ Microsoft Photos on https://www.microsoft.com/en-za/p/microsoft-photos/9wzdncrfjbh4?activetab=pivot:overviewtab LightZone on https://lightzoneproject.org/ Photoscape X on https://www.microsoft.com/en-za/p/photoscape-x/9nblggh4twwg?rtc=1#system-requirements Photopea on https://www.photopea.com/ Limited Free BeFunky on https://www.befunky.com/ Fotor on https://www.fotor.com/ Pixlr on https://pixlr.com/x/ PicMonkey on https://www.picmonkey.com/ Sumo on https://sumo.app/pricing Polarr on https://www.polarr.com/
[2021/09/25 11:11] Duraya Resident: I personally liked the remark someone dropped during the discussion to start with an easier tool and if you feel you need more take the next step. This way you avoid frustration, some of the tools are a bit tricky and it takes some time and practice to get comfortable using them.
[2021/09/25 11:12] Duraya Resident: Kapaan will pass it over to you together with a backdrop I found on Marketplace – I added a wall to make it more neutral thus it shows me as creator – I‘m not – well I am now, since it is full perm and I changed it ‚substantially‘ ;-).
[2021/09/25 11:12] Duraya Resident: so I hope you can use it and you are free to play with textures on it
[2021/09/25 11:13] Duraya Resident: Last time I informed you about how the discussion will be held technically – does everyone remember?
[2021/09/25 11:13] Duraya Resident: Kika passed out the routine to the new ones
[2021/09/25 11:13] Duraya Resident: nice you could join us this time
[2021/09/25 11:14] Duraya Resident: Let‘s start by taking up an idea Kika brought in last time. Besides using alts or yourself as models would you be interested in other models? Could we make a list of those volunteering or do you even know people who‘d love to be models?
[2021/09/25 11:15] Duraya Resident: hehe – no one needs models
[2021/09/25 11:15] Kika Yongho: c
[2021/09/25 11:15] Duraya Resident: yes Kika
[2021/09/25 11:15] Moki Yuitza: c
[2021/09/25 11:15] Kika Yongho: I am of course and it would be great to find volunteers to experiment with photos other than friends “forced” to do so 😛
[2021/09/25 11:15] Kika Yongho: done
[2021/09/25 11:15] Michiel Bechir: I work sometimes with models, and usually ask friends for it
[2021/09/25 11:16] Michiel Bechir: Not everyone is willing to do it, because a session can take a lot of time
[11:16] Yvette (yvette.arabello): I usually ask friends 🙂
[11:16] Duraya: okay – so if someone needs a model, I will be the first to volunteer – just send an IM
[11:16] Duraya: Moki please
[11:17] Yvette (yvette.arabello): I am happy to volunteer
[11:17] Moki Yuitza: mostly Michiel said all… i usually use myself as model, but in case i ask to friends
[11:17] Chemsia: C
[11:18] Moki Yuitza: i’m quite slow to take pictures, because often i build poses and backdrops by myself, so…. not all people could spend so much time with me
[11:18] Moki Yuitza: done °͜°
[11:18] Duraya: Chemsia please
[11:20] Chemsia: like Moki and Michiel before, I usually tend to take pictures of me and few friends when the occasion presents itself.. and yes it can take some time.. although, I always found you can explore more doing this with other people.. idea, details to add.. angles.. often the same scene taken by both person offers quite a change in the end result feeling and so on… just my views on it all 🙂 and yes Ill be happy (if I have the time ahead) to be part of someone photo project.
[11:20] Chemsia: done..
[11:20] Michiel Bechir: c
[11:20] Michiel Bechir: in some cases i asked people spontaneously at a sim
[11:20] Duraya: thank you Chemsia
[11:21] Duraya: Michiel was that your comment already?
[11:21] Michiel Bechir: yes
[11:21] Duraya: thank you
[11:21] Moki Yuitza: c
[11:21] Duraya: I think it adds a lot if you work with other people as Chemsia said
[11:22] Duraya: Moki please
[11:22] Moki Yuitza: you just said what I have in mind, but i want just add that we could make two lists:
[11:22] Moki Yuitza: one for models
[11:22] Moki Yuitza: and other one artist who search models °͜°
[11:22] Kika Yongho: c
[11:22] Moki Yuitza: done
[11:23] Duraya: perfect organization Moki
[11:23] Duraya: Kika please
[11:23] Kika Yongho: I agree with the lists!! It should be trusted people .. just saying 😉 done
[11:24] Michiel Bechir: c
[11:24] Loony Carabosse – Moretto (louna.perl): C
[11:24] Duraya: okay – we will then work out who will be the keeper of the lists and present you next time – agreed?
[11:24] Duraya: oh
[11:24] Duraya: more comments
[11:24] Duraya: Michiel first
[11:24] Michiel Bechir: I know some models i can ask if they are interested to be on a list
[11:24] Michiel Bechir: so they can work with different artists
[11:24] Duraya: that would be great Michiel
[11:25] Duraya: Loony please
[11:25] Loony Carabosse – Moretto (louna.perl): I have two ways… I love taking pics at parties or events… I disconnect usually totally from the actual party or event and focus on taking a pic of “expression” or funny moment… I’m a bad guest 🙂 Or I have an idea and then it can take time to have the right setting and I love that too… I wish i could take more time to do it. But for me, working with a “willing model” i’ve never done, I take candid pics… I’m curious about how it goes
[11:25] Loony Carabosse – Moretto (louna.perl): Done 🙂
[11:26] Duraya: yes! experiment!
[11:26] Duraya: more on models?
[11:27] Duraya: okay
[11:27] Duraya: Our main topic today is to discuss about photo-art. The way you positioned yourself last time when we got to know each other a bit clearly indicates that your interest goes beyond ‚just taking snapshots ‘. That‘s where we start though – so could you express what turns a snapshot into photo-art in general and where you aim at personally please?
[11:28] Yvette (yvette.arabello): c
[11:28] Duraya: yes Yvette
[11:29] Yvette (yvette.arabello): for me taking a picture is sharing an emotion I felt when looking at the subject.
[11:29] Duraya nods
[11:29] Michiel Bechir: c
[11:29] Duraya: done Yvette?
[11:30] Yvette (yvette.arabello): yes
[11:30] Duraya: Michiel now you please
[11:30] Michiel Bechir: for me the difference between a usual snapshot and a picture is the personal touch, the personal approach
[11:31] Loony Carabosse – Moretto (louna.perl): C
[11:31] Michiel Bechir: so the way an artists shows details you normally don’t notice
[11:31] Michiel Bechir: thats my comment:)
[11:31] Duraya: thank you Michiel 🙂
[11:31] Duraya: Loony now please
[11:31] Loony Carabosse – Moretto (louna.perl): I love the way photography can catch a moment and at the same time, look like a painting…. I think I see each pic as a painting (I mean, not my lame efforts as an SL photographer, I’m talking more generally)
[11:32] Loony Carabosse – Moretto (louna.perl): Done 🙂
[11:32] Duraya: 🙂
[11:32] Kika Yongho: c
[11:33] Chemsia: c
[11:33] Duraya: Kika now
[11:33] Kika Yongho: When I take a photo I try to picture a story, a vision I have of a concept (or emotion as it has been said!). For me my photos are one frame of a more complex movie that goes through my mind and that I try and “sum up” in a single shot. About what would make them art.. Is not up to me to say I guess! 😛
[11:33] Kika Yongho: done
[11:33] Rory Torrance (rory.torrance): c
[11:33] Duraya: thanks Kika
[11:34] Duraya: next is Chemsia
[11:34] Moki Yuitza: c
[11:34] Chemsia: Thanks,.. like Kika said.. (and I guess it’s the price commenting after everyone :p) .. It often starts with a clever idea.. or moment that inspires you taking the picture/frame/angles .. I could post-process and add much to a simple picture.. but without the original still picture meaning something it’s a bit drab. It has to start on a good basis .. something that calls for you to play longer with it.. calls for a deeper art to be worked.. Sometimes it can be a super simple shot, other time it can be a mess to highlight the meaningful parts..
[11:34] Chemsia: done
[11:35] DaneAlbion: c
[11:35] Duraya: very well said Chemsia, agreed
[11:36] Duraya: and Rory is next on my list
[11:36] Rory Torrance (rory.torrance): for me, i think there is only one criterion that separates art from craft and that is creativity. if you’re doing something that has never been done before, or at least a fresh look at an old theme, that is art, more or less. otherwise, it’s just painting by the numbers. done.
[11:36] Duraya: thank you 🙂
[11:37] Duraya: Moki!
[11:37] Duraya: you now
[11:37] Moki Yuitza: I try to express an emotion … my emotion, using the model as a tool … I am fascinated by the human body or the avatar, in this case, in fact I am totally unable or almost unable to take pictures of panoramas … this is what I’m looking for in a single shot, but something similar when I build a series … in that case add a story like Kika and Chemsia….
[11:38] Moki Yuitza: a sort of evolution in every single shot of the series.
[11:38] Moki Yuitza: done
[11:39] Duraya: Dane – you are next on my list
[11:39] DaneAlbion: I wouldn’t describe my pictures as art as i’ve never been able to define them anymore than ‘the image pleases me in some way’ its all very much at a gut instinct level.
[11:39] DaneAlbion: done
[11:40] Duraya: thank you Dane
[11:40] Loony Carabosse – Moretto (louna.perl): C
[11:40] Duraya: Loony please
[11:40] Loony Carabosse – Moretto (louna.perl): I kind of think like Moki… I usually have amazing ideas I really want to implement… But in the end, I never have the same pleasure as when I spot the “right” moment when I’m obsessively shooting a poor person who doesn’t even know I’m photo stalking him/her
[11:41] Rory Torrance (rory.torrance): yes a fresh eye makes all the difference!
[11:41] Kika Yongho: q
[11:41] Duraya: yes Kika
[11:41] Kika Yongho: I am very curious myself about “what is art?”.. Rory gave a first definition and is bound to creativity and “new”. But is that the only criteria? I am curious to hear more definitions!
[11:41] Moki Yuitza: c
[11:42] Duraya: Moki now
[11:42] Moki Yuitza: i’m agree with Dane,i cannot define my photos as “art”
[11:42] Moki Yuitza: someone else do this, for me art is emotion
[11:42] Rory Torrance (rory.torrance): c
[11:42] Moki Yuitza: if something gives me an emotion, good or bad, that is art for me
[11:43] Moki Yuitza: but if i have to talk about my work… that is not art, i’m just a craftsman…. well, woman °͜°
[11:43] Duraya smiles – and that contributes to the definition of art
[11:43] Violette (violette.rembrandt): c
[11:43] Moki Yuitza: done °͜°
[11:43] Duraya: Rory is next
[11:44] Rory Torrance (rory.torrance): just to clarify, craft can also be great – a perfect expression of an old theme can be beautiful and wonderful without
being all that creative. it all depends on what you want.
[11:44] Rory Torrance (rory.torrance): done
[11:44] Yvette (yvette.arabello): C
[11:44] Kika Yongho nods
[11:44] Duraya: Violette is next
[11:44] Violette (violette.rembrandt): When i take a photo, most of the time is to express a mood, or convey some feelings. But sometimes it happens that a crazy idea pops up. The part i like is to try harder each time to make the photo express what i intended to convey. I tried to take a photo of someone else other than my av only one time, i don’t know if i’m skilled when it comes to portrait (+it took me hours to find the right angle or light and pose ‘^^ may be too long for a model to take !)
[11:45] Violette (violette.rembrandt): done ^^
[11:45] Duraya: thank you – and now Yvette please
[11:46] Yvette (yvette.arabello): as much as we are all unique , so is our perspective on what Art it
[11:46] Yvette (yvette.arabello): Done
[11:46] Duraya: 🙂
[11:46] Be Holder nods
[11:46] Duraya: very wise
[11:47] Michiel Bechir: c
[11:47] Kapaan: q
[11:47] Duraya: Michiel please
[11:47] Michiel Bechir: I agree considering something as art is a subjective thing
[11:47] Michiel Bechir: i also work as an admin for several flickr groups
[11:47] Loony Carabosse – Moretto (louna.perl): C
[11:48] Michiel Bechir: and sometimes receive messages when pictures are refused
[11:48] Michiel Bechir: they ask me…the quality is good enough, it is art etc
[11:48] Michiel Bechir: but i think it is very subjective
[11:49] Duraya: and it must be a hard job to answer them
[11:49] Michiel Bechir: i think originality is more important
[11:49] Michiel Bechir: yes, that is difficult
[11:49] Duraya: 🙂
[11:49] Michiel Bechir: because i also don’t want to disappoint people
[11:49] Duraya nods
[11:49] Michiel Bechir: so i try to explain how it works for me
[11:49] Michiel Bechir: thats my comment
[11:49] Duraya: thank you
[11:50] Duraya: your turn Kapaan
[11:50] Moki Yuitza: q
[11:50] Kapaan: The discussion is amazing, lots of interesting facets. I see everyone is talking about emotional expression as a key component to art. I am curious what kind of state have produced your best shots? Do you take happy pics when you are sad or sad pics when you are happy? Is this a creative source to create art?
[11:50] Loony Carabosse – Moretto (louna.perl): C
[11:50] Kapaan: Done
[11:50] Kika Yongho: c
[11:51] Duraya: thank you love
[11:51] Duraya: Loony is next
[11:51] Loony Carabosse – Moretto (louna.perl): I still believe in “beauty”… But as we all know, beauty comes from everywhere and appears in everything… I think it’s the “look” at things that touches me… I fall into tricks: black&white, over exposed, close ups or on the contrary blurry… There is the beauty of technique and also the “look”… The way someone looked at something or someone… And it can be classic (God knows how I love old Masters) or pop.. But in the end, the “look” (le regard for those who understand French) is what gets me. I think that’s the difference between pics and art. (But I’m still collecting candid pics from the 70’s for the colors and the fashion or non fashion lol)
[11:51] Loony Carabosse – Moretto (louna.perl): Done 🙂
[11:52] Duraya: thank you Loony 😀
[11:52] Duraya: and I have Moki on the list
[11:52] Moki Yuitza: i had a question for Michiel, if we are in time °͜°
[11:53] Duraya: sure
[11:53] Moki Yuitza: you said twice that the most important thing for you is originality, so i would like to understand what is “originality” for you….
[11:55] Michiel Bechir: originality is the opposite for me
[11:55] Michiel Bechir: for things as copying ideas of others
[11:55] Michiel Bechir: like i see sometimes on flickr
[11:55] Michiel Bechir: so doing the same as others
[11:55] Michiel Bechir: i see it sometimes also in fashion photos made in second life
[11:56] Michiel Bechir: an original works shows the view of the artist
[11:56] Michiel Bechir: the personal approach to things
[11:57] Michiel Bechir: the style he uses
[11:57] Michiel Bechir: colors he likes etc
[11:57] Moki Yuitza: thanks for the answer Michiel °͜°
[11:57] Michiel Bechir: thats for me originality
[11:57] Michiel Bechir: you are welcome Moki
[11:57] Michiel Bechir: done:)
[11:57] Duraya: thank you
[11:58] Rory Torrance (rory.torrance): 1st time is art, 2nd time is craft. could be very fine but just not original.
[11:58] Duraya: Kika
[11:58] Kika Yongho: Replying to Kapaan
[11:58] Kika Yongho: about the mood
[11:58] Kika Yongho: My photos in most times reflect the mood – or portrait a specific mood – that I want to “express” and take out and sublimate through a picture. So if I am sad.. 99% it will be a sad picture and vice versa as taking the photo is to share an emotion. Sometimes in the 1% the photo gets alive and gives me an emotion by itself! 🙂
[11:58] Kika Yongho: done
[11:59] Michiel Bechir: c
[11:59] Loony Carabosse – Moretto (louna.perl): C
[11:59] Duraya: Michiel
[12:00] Michiel Bechir: the thing Kika said about emotions that’s a good example of the personal approach
[12:00] Rory Torrance (rory.torrance): yes it makes it more original
[12:00] Michiel Bechir: especially when you can see it and feel it when watching a photo
[12:00] Michiel Bechir: done
[12:00] DaneAlbion: c
[12:01] Duraya: Loony and then Dane – we will for sure continue this discussion next time!
[12:01] Loony Carabosse – Moretto (louna.perl): There is also a mystery for me… That is how I am fascinated by pics taken on SL… That is true with art also (many exciting things on SL)… In these times when and where we hear often about metaverses… I think it’s interesting to try to understand why and how we are for example focused on our avies or other avies, as “a kind of beauty”. Actually, I just saw Kika’s comment and i’d add the need of expressing a feeling… I know I manage it better on Sl than with a RL pic 🙂
[12:02] Rory Torrance (rory.torrance): c
[12:02] Duraya: 🙂
[12:02] Loony Carabosse – Moretto (louna.perl): I’m done but still thinking about art and craft 🙂
[12:02] Kika Yongho grins
[12:03] Duraya: Dane please
[12:03] DaneAlbion: a thought on Kapaan’s question, i’m not sure i can take emotion into pictures. If i was in an emotional state, exceptionally happy, sad etc i think it would impact my ability to follow proper technique which is always important to me.
[12:03] DaneAlbion: done
[12:03] Loony Carabosse – Moretto (louna.perl): C
[12:03] Duraya: thank you Dane
[12:03] Duraya: Rory please
[12:04] Rory Torrance (rory.torrance): thinking about fractal art has helped to clarify my view of creativity. a fractal is a mathematical pattern that is ‘out there’ in a sense but out of an infinite field, the artist’s choice makes it original. it’s the same with photography, your unique angle and emphasis makes it creative even tho its something a million others might also see in their own way.
[12:05] Moki Yuitza: c
[12:05] Duraya: thank you – and last comment for today goes to Loony
[12:06] Be Holder: I’m officially lost now
[12:06] Loony Carabosse – Moretto (louna.perl): Arf… I lost my comment.. I was reacting on what dane said and wished I had a better technique, that limits me a lot
[12:07] Loony Carabosse – Moretto (louna.perl): But at the same time, I have the feeling i’m learning a lot too… So… I’m not a lost soul 🙂
[12:07] Duraya: Hahahaha – well let’s call it a day anyway – we will continue this next time – it’s too interesting to take up something new
[12:07] Loony Carabosse – Moretto (louna.perl): (sorry my former comment was more elaborated… 🙂 Done!)
[12:07] Duraya smiles at Loony
[12:07] Moki Yuitza: well, a lot of comments crossing on chat… this means that the subject was very interesting^^
[12:07] Duraya: this one was very original 😉
[12:08] Duraya: Last but not least: please tip the place if you can and thank you Kika for making this happen.
[12:08] Duraya: the program for next time will be out soon
[12:08] Kika Yongho: Thank you Duraya 😀