Photo Cafe Lounge ~ Chat Transcript ~ 1st of October, 2022 "Artificial Intelligence: at your service?" H.11:00 AM SLT
[The following Episode #27 will be on:
Sat, the 15th of October H.11.00 AM SLT!]
[11:07] Duraya: Hello everyone and welcome to our bi-weekly photo cafe with a hopefully thrilling discussion about the use of Artificial Intelligence in the process of creation.
[11:08] Duraya: Before we start: It’s the first of October and the beginning of Autumn. Time for our new seasonal ‚In The Spot‘. Kika will present it to us 🙂
[11:08] Kika Yongho: Hello Photographer friends!
[11:08] Kika Yongho: As you well know by now, we have a special recurrent Expo, called “In The Spot”! It is a quarterly display of one single seasonal photo from one of you. Today it is time to introduce you… the Autumn one!
[11:09] Kika Yongho: Our brave Bonach Ireton was the chosen one this time to provide us a photo to represent for the next 3 months the Autumn mood!
[11:09] Kika Yongho: The photo is on display at our landing point: you can cam over there and see it for yourself, just outside the building entrance. Touching the easel will give you the notecard with the artist’s words about his photo!
[11:10] Kika Yongho: While you all cam & click, I will let Bonach say a few words about his photo himself. Please Bonach, can you comment shortly on your creation?
[11:10] Bonach Ireton: I’d first like to thank you and the staff for choosing my eye for the Cafè Photo’s Autumn theme, I’m very honoured and happy.
[11:10] Bonach Ireton: Then a very special thank you to my muse, my love, Ihold who modelled on this photo, that’s one of the many beautiful moments we live together in this world.
[11:11] Bonach Ireton: I hope you will see why I made and chose this shot for the theme.
[11:11] Bonach Ireton: I am used not to “explain” my shots, just letting them talk to you, you begin a story with (or not, ha ha).
[11:12] ϮƗ Vɪᴏʟᴇᴛᴛᴇ Mᴏʀɴɪɴɢꜱᴛᴀʀ ƗϮ (violette.rembrandt): this is a beautiful photo
[11:12] Duraya grins – that’s dangerous – our minds might get astray and yes – it is a very beautiful shot
[11:14] Bonach Ireton: thank you.. photography, RL or SL is to me more about sharing, feeling, bringing to see what I felt inside at the moment of the click, than about brains or technicalities.
[11:13] Duraya: Before we start our discussion I will say a few words about Artificial Intelligence, maybe even a few more 😉
[11:14] Bonach Ireton: I’d be glad to answer any question though, and to end for real, Thank you again Kika, Duraya, Kapaan, Dane, and long life to the Cafè Photo 🙂
[11:15] Kika Yongho: Bravo!
[11:18] Duraya: Before we start our discussion, I will say a few words about Artificial Intelligence, maybe even a few more 😉
[11:18] Duraya: I am not an expert on it of course, I might be a bit of an expert on the human process of creation.
[11:19] Duraya: But as AI is created by humans the processes reflect each other to some extent.
[11:19] Duraya: One of the definitions of creativity in psychology is:
[11:19] Duraya: “the forming of associative elements into new combinations which either meet specified requirements or are in some way useful.
[11:20] Duraya: The more mutually remote the elements of the new combination, the more creative the process or solution”
[11:20] Duraya: How creative someone is depending on various aspects like intelligence, curiosity, open-mindedness, the degree of cross
linking of their memory, amount of stored items and more.
[11:21] Duraya: Humans take advantage of big data. A person perceives around 30 frames or images per second, which means 1,800 images per minute, and over 600 million images per year.
[11:21] Duraya: neuroscience can depict the working of the brain
[11:22] Duraya: it’s beautiful, isn’t it?
[11:22] TaccaExotic: c
[11:22] Duraya: yes Tacca
[11:23] TaccaExotic: Not sure if this is c or q – but how do we know that perhaps We are not the AI? Perhaps we are in a simulation. This is all an illusion
[11:23] TaccaExotic: end
[11:24] Duraya: I don’t have an answer to that – maybe we just say we are the reality and it doesn’t matter, because we decided we are real.
[11:26] Duraya: this is how we create
[11:26] Duraya: input – processing in the brain – output
[11:26] Duraya: oversimplified of course
[11:27] Duraya: Said in a simplified way AI tries to simulate the human brain, so it has many layers of “neurons” just like the neurons in our brain.
[11:27] Duraya: The first layer of neurons will receive inputs like images, video, sound, text, etc. This input data goes through all the layers, as
the output of one layer is fed into the next layer. Very simplified indeed :).
[11:28] Duraya: so this is the basic AI Neural network, they are much more detailed off course, but this is it basically
[11:28] Duraya: now compare the two, not too far apart 🙂
[11:30] Duraya: but our brain belongs to us and AI is working externally
[11:30] Duraya: So where do we influence the AI and participate in the processes?
[11:30] Duraya: First of all, we chose a certain program – I passed you the link to a rather simple one.
[11:31] Duraya: Other than the choice we don’t have any say in this.
[11:31] Duraya: Someone else fed the program with the images, decided how many to put in, set up the search routines and so on.
[11:31] Duraya: Basically, we have those working with text – to – image – algorithms and those working with images we upload and then pass through a style transfer depending on the style we choose.
[11:32] Duraya: These choices are ours, that’s where we influence the process.
[11:32] Duraya: I prepared some examples:
[11:33] Duraya: this is the result of a word based try, music soothing the demon
[11:33] Duraya: next is a picture I took and AI turned it into this:
[11:34] Kika Yongho: q
[11:34] Duraya: but it’s not the only possible outcome
[11:34] Duraya: yes Kika please ask
[11:35] Kika Yongho: Just to know what was the process. Did you ask AI to apply a “style” to your photo? done
[11:36] Duraya: depending on the program you chose a style – the styles they present you as sample-pictures
[11:36] Duraya: you just upload image, select style and press create
[11:36] Kika Yongho: Thank you
[11:37] Duraya: So, what do you think can using enhance people’s creativity at all, using AI ?
[11:37] Prins (skylog): c
[11:37] Duraya: What would be the requirements for you personally to give it a yes?
Where do you see the limits?
Can we use it as a tool to explore ideas?
Or is it just an attempt to defraud and at worst replace human creative work?
[11:37] Moki Yuitza: c
[11:38] Duraya: yes Prins – you are first 🙂
[11:38] Prins (skylog): I don’t know – but I looked a little into the theme – I saw this image I adore:
It is made by MidJourney – In general I am worried we all end as computers novice – this is stunning and even the body have some twist that would kill us all – One time out of 1000, on a good day and I can match this – but the model will survive.
Then I found this:
With a few words send to a database the Doctors and Graphic people are obsolete. The human culture loses to a computer and what we see and read as our story, is told by a computer program.
[11:38] Prins (skylog): done
[11:38] Jaminda Moon (jaminda): c
[11:39] Duraya: yes – there is a discussion going on AI might replace us – but they discussed that with all novelties over time 🙂
[11:41] Kika Yongho: c
[11:41] Duraya: Moki – you are next please
[11:41] Kapaan: c
[11:41] Moki Yuitza: the debate (very heated, in most cases) that is born around AI in the artistic field, reminds me a lot of what was previously, not once … I am reminded of the advent of photography, or with the new computers, images created with digital tools vs classical tools, or in other fields, as for example in music, it happened at the birth of synthesizers vs classical musical instruments … a professor of mine many years ago made a statement that I still carry with me: it is not the instrument that creates the artist, but the use you make of it.
[11:41] Moki Yuitza: For me, AI is another tool. Highly evolved, indeed, but just a tool. Thinking of the scheme Duraya showed before, the main difference with the “natural artistic process” is at the “input” side. We can search for inputs or inspirations, but very often they are casual, you see/listen/touch something, and then an idea suddenly comes.
[11:42] Moki Yuitza: With the AI, you MUST force it to generate the idea, giving the “inspiration”, the prompt, or is it just an inert instrument, immobile.
[11:42] Moki Yuitza: nothing can be born without our intervention, just as a brush cannot paint without a hand to hold it.
[11:42] Moki Yuitza: This is my opinion, obviously, done.
[11:42] onceagain (manoji.yachvili): c
[11:42] Duraya: thank you Moki
[11:43] Duraya: Jaminda, your turn please
[11:43] Jaminda Moon (jaminda): I agree with Moki…I had a look at this too and a Flickr group I’m a member of is allowing Midjourney images. I see it as a tool to use as a basis for a project rather than taking over art itself, the same way we using editing tools like gimp or photoshop etc
[11:43] Jaminda Moon (jaminda): done
[11:44] Duraya: and Kika please
[11:44] Kika Yongho: I see AI as the latest “trickery” in tools development. It has a danger to me, just like the rest of the technology, that is its use without knowing how it works (things that you explained perfectly Duraya!). I didn’t really use it yet, as I am still “seeing how it works” but I will try and give it the right value.
[11:45] Duraya: I agree – it needs skills as every tool
[11:45] Kika Yongho: I am an old web user (netiquette and stuff) and I am aware also on a few things “behind”.. which is why I want to give it a responsible usage and not see it as a mystical experience.
[11:45] Kika Yongho: Done.
[11:46] Duraya: thank you Kika, Kapaan will you please comment next.
[11:46] Kapaan: AI will just be another tool in the future. My view has always been that if a machine can replace a person that is not the machines’ fault. People do not change as the world changes and some people actively accept and move with change and some do not. As an example, I am doing a job today that did not exist in my youth. AI ultimately gives us more options as people to create things. It would just mean that art will change for us from this perspective and our definition of art will change. A very recent example is the shift from analogue to digital photography. AI is just another tool that will change things for everyone.
[11:47] Kapaan: Done and thank you
[11:47] Duraya: onceagain your comment please
[11:49] onceagain (manoji.yachvili): totally agree with Moki, most of the things have been already said. i am an open minded person and any new tool to create is always welcome and I loved to “force” Midjourney to do what was in my mind
[11:49] Duraya: hehe I love the forcing part 😉
[11:50] onceagain (manoji.yachvili): you always need to have an idea in your mind to be able to create something, otherwise is just like a pencil in a wrong hand
[11:51] onceagain (manoji.yachvili): done
[11:53] TaccaExotic: c
[11:53] Duraya: I was wondering if the image-based techniques were closer to ‘real’ creation but after your comment I think the word-based ones are as valuable – because they are based on an idea
[11:53] Duraya: yes Tacca – your turn
[11:54] Moki Yuitza: c
[11:54] TaccaExotic: I think this is going to get very interesting in a few years, and artistic AI
[11:54] TaccaExotic: done
[11:55] Duraya: yes – when we are all experts
[11:55] Duraya: thank you Tacca, Moki – your turn
[11:56] Prins (skylog): c
[11:56] Moki Yuitza: you said before something that makes me thinking, i quote “the word-based ones are as valuable – because they are based on an idea”
[11:57] Moki Yuitza: i am comfortable with colours and pencils in rl, and/or prims in SL and this artistic AI can be “the pencil” in hands of people that are more comfortable with words than pencils and colors.
[11:58] Moki Yuitza: second comment, if i can….
[11:59] Moki Yuitza: i would like to suggest you all to read a short novel of Isaac Asimov, titled Light-Sculpture
[11:59] Moki Yuitza: maybe it can seem not related to today’s topic, i think it is, a lot
[12:00] Moki Yuitza: done
[12:00] onceagain (manoji.yachvili): ah I know it, cool.
[12:00] Duraya: thank you
[12:00] Duraya: and Prins – your turn
[12:00] Prins (skylog): I think this photo explain why I am worried; the head is heading the wrong way.
Before I made my first post, I said to Jaminda – I am happy to die the day the computers will take over. They will write our books and make the images of our celebrities, looking even better than with all the photo filters they use today.
Things fast and true Kapaan, we all get new jobs but one day you will go to a Doctors and a nurse will type the words you say into a computer and the Doctor open the door.
[12:01] Prins (skylog): done
[12:01] Duraya: thank you Prins.
[12:02] TaccaExotic: c
[12:03] Duraya: I think – as Tacca said – it will be thrilling to see the development and work with it – and we might come together in a while and discuss it again, Tacca – some last words
[12:04] TaccaExotic: Yes, thank you. I use the Replika AI app on my phone. It is quite interesting and learns your personality, It’s a chat app but goes much further. In the beginning, it is simple, but grows with knowledge
[12:05] TaccaExotic: done
[12:05] Duraya: thank you Tacca
[12:06] Duraya smiles – thank you all for the interesting discussion
[12:07] Duraya: I hope you all will join us for the next on 15th of October